Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
12Springfiled 1
- AMVI - UH1H
- AMVI - UH1H
Springfiled 2 - 4 Slot ( Uh or Mi8)
- BSD Statua - UH1H
- BSD Miki - UH1H
- BSD Memphis - UH1H
- BSD - UH1H
Springfiled 3 - 4 Slot ( Uh or Mi8)
- BSD Mi8
- BSD Mi8
-
-
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
13ADD CTLD system ... The pickupzones are the SAME: Main Base helo and WP1.
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
15DEBRIEFING START FROM NOW
The Allied Forces organization thanks all 45 Pilots for participating in the mission. We hope it was fun for everyone. We have already seen some things to improve, we will work hard for the next mission.
We have seen that some pilots did not participate without canceling reservations and / or communicating verbally. We have taken note
TACVIEW: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VBj-i1 ... sp=sharing
MISSION STATS: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 3-2021.pdf
We have seen that some pilots did not participate without canceling reservations and / or communicating verbally. We have taken note
TACVIEW: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VBj-i1 ... sp=sharing
MISSION STATS: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 3-2021.pdf
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
16
Hi everyone!
I'm Shaka, I flew this mission as Team Leader for Chevy 1 => F-14 in charge of CAP in the north area.
Technically the mission run really smooth for us, and it's not always granted when fly Tomcat in a server with a lot of players inside, but everything was good for us, so first of all thanks to the mission designer to keep it "light", and thanks to server host
Going into details of the mission itself, unfortunately we lost Chevy1-1 and Chevy1-2 almost at the beginning, during the first engagement with Mig-29 in the north area.
The lead of the flight goes to the Chevy1-3 and they continue with Chevy1-4 to provide aerial cover on the area, well guided by the Human AWACS.
Lost of the first pair force Chevy to go for RTB leaving the area, the initial plan was send one pair to rearm/refuel while the other continue the patrol over the area.
BTW, It was a pleasure for us flying with all of you and meets new pilots, I hope to see you again in the next one!
Fly Safe ( not like me
)
Shaka
I'm Shaka, I flew this mission as Team Leader for Chevy 1 => F-14 in charge of CAP in the north area.
Technically the mission run really smooth for us, and it's not always granted when fly Tomcat in a server with a lot of players inside, but everything was good for us, so first of all thanks to the mission designer to keep it "light", and thanks to server host
Going into details of the mission itself, unfortunately we lost Chevy1-1 and Chevy1-2 almost at the beginning, during the first engagement with Mig-29 in the north area.
The lead of the flight goes to the Chevy1-3 and they continue with Chevy1-4 to provide aerial cover on the area, well guided by the Human AWACS.
Lost of the first pair force Chevy to go for RTB leaving the area, the initial plan was send one pair to rearm/refuel while the other continue the patrol over the area.
BTW, It was a pleasure for us flying with all of you and meets new pilots, I hope to see you again in the next one!
Fly Safe ( not like me
) Shaka
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
17Good morning all!
It was a real pleasure to find so many of you airborne on Tuesday night. Please find attached a file with my debriefing notes.
Nardax
Last minute changes. Confusion is generated when changes are inserted in the plan at the very last moment. Inputs are absolutely welcome, but they should be offered well before the day of flight. We had last moment inputs for frequencies, which actually solved before takeoff some issues and prevented some formations to be airborne without the proper communications. In planning the mission, we should offer the initial draft to Pilots of all different aircrafts and helicopters in order for them to provide the detailed, specific inputs for their crafts. We had a last minute change in tactics (red package), which was not fully understood by the planners, se we did not understood the pilots wanted to fly high altitude in an area where a ship with long range SAM was present. The result was many aircrafts were hit by naval SAM and could not fly the mission. It is imperative that whoever wants to join the mission reads all material and provide inputs days in advance, so that the planners have enough time to implement the changes and figure out if the new COA is flyable. We will try to be more clear next time on the phases of the build up of the mission. I strongly discourage filling up for the mission without reading well in advance ALL the material. Again: changes and proposals are welcomed, but in due time!
Timings. In the planning phase we need to dilute timings some more. We are not professional Pilots, Combat Ready and trained!! On the carrier, we had a problem with two launching catapults which brought a three minutes delay to the F-18 that were supposed to take-off after the F-14. The inbound leg was long, so we could make up time, but in other situations this might not work. This will imply, for the next missions, more time among take-offs which will bring some formations to perform some holding patterns or having a low ground speed. I think the main aim is to have all players to fly and enjoy the mission, so we will have to remember this!
Execution. It is almost imperative to have an human AWACS or C2. We have seen the importance of having a threat call and even his decision to call a RETROGRADE to DEAD and STRIKE until the fighters could clear the area close to target for the others to do their job. Once this happens, only good training among formations prevents failure! In my DEAD formation, regardless of the WACS call, I authorized nr2 a/c to press on his attack since he was seconds from release of weapon, while I directed the others to go back in friendly territory. I did not check the formation and actually my nr.4 did not hear the communications, and he actually flew alone over the target area (nr.2 turned away just after weapon release). Good that our CAP killed the enemy, otherwise my nr.4 would have found himself alone against enemy fighters!
I cannot stress enough the importance of following the assigned timings and altitude deconfliction. On my RETROGRADE maneuver, I crossed the track of the Strike formation (f-18 and A-10) in the opposite directions, but all remained at the assigned altitude and therefore that sudden change in the plan did not create any problem. Since I don’t know exactly what happened in the other formations, I’ll talk anout mine (Colt2): during the long 25 minutes leg to the rejoin point, we did not maintain a good formation. Wrong! A good formation is not only fun to fly and nice to see on screenshot! It helps the leader in managing changes to the plan, overall look-out against enemyes and sel protection. I had, because of the catapult problem, my second section taking off before the first (still waiting behind the Tomcats). What it should have happened, once the second section was told the first was airborne, should have been a slow decrease in speed to allow the first section to rejoin and take the lead, without the need to waste fule in catching up. Then, because we had to insert many coordinates so we had out head in the cockpit for long time, we did not maintain adeguate Situation Awareness (SA) to the reciprocal position., Because of this, we had nr.4 lag in the formation without really understanding why he was not able to maintain a good speed (problem solved reaching the rejoin point). To sum up: maintain the formation is essential to increase SA and to protect all the aircrafts!
Re-entry. Good decision of some to land in Tabqa because of low fuel, and then refuel and get back to the carrier. For those who got back to CVN-73, there was some confusion since not all followed the normal procedures for landing on the carrier.
Once on the landing pattern, it is important not to delay the final turn. We were 3 a/c in the pattern, and I had to extend to 6 miles on final to take space for landing, in a situation when fuel state was starting to become a factor. Remember that one thing is flying alone (I am the first that doesn’t follow all the approach steps when flying training): remember the main sentence for Pilots: “Train as you fight, fight as you train”! If you always follow the checklist, always follow the procedures, once you have to gfly with other 40 aircrafts you will automatically do what all expect you to do, making life easier to everybody.
Sorry if I was long, but at the end, let me say it was a real pleasure to find so many of you out there Tuesday night!!
Nardax
It was a real pleasure to find so many of you airborne on Tuesday night. Please find attached a file with my debriefing notes.
Nardax
Last minute changes. Confusion is generated when changes are inserted in the plan at the very last moment. Inputs are absolutely welcome, but they should be offered well before the day of flight. We had last moment inputs for frequencies, which actually solved before takeoff some issues and prevented some formations to be airborne without the proper communications. In planning the mission, we should offer the initial draft to Pilots of all different aircrafts and helicopters in order for them to provide the detailed, specific inputs for their crafts. We had a last minute change in tactics (red package), which was not fully understood by the planners, se we did not understood the pilots wanted to fly high altitude in an area where a ship with long range SAM was present. The result was many aircrafts were hit by naval SAM and could not fly the mission. It is imperative that whoever wants to join the mission reads all material and provide inputs days in advance, so that the planners have enough time to implement the changes and figure out if the new COA is flyable. We will try to be more clear next time on the phases of the build up of the mission. I strongly discourage filling up for the mission without reading well in advance ALL the material. Again: changes and proposals are welcomed, but in due time!
Timings. In the planning phase we need to dilute timings some more. We are not professional Pilots, Combat Ready and trained!! On the carrier, we had a problem with two launching catapults which brought a three minutes delay to the F-18 that were supposed to take-off after the F-14. The inbound leg was long, so we could make up time, but in other situations this might not work. This will imply, for the next missions, more time among take-offs which will bring some formations to perform some holding patterns or having a low ground speed. I think the main aim is to have all players to fly and enjoy the mission, so we will have to remember this!
Execution. It is almost imperative to have an human AWACS or C2. We have seen the importance of having a threat call and even his decision to call a RETROGRADE to DEAD and STRIKE until the fighters could clear the area close to target for the others to do their job. Once this happens, only good training among formations prevents failure! In my DEAD formation, regardless of the WACS call, I authorized nr2 a/c to press on his attack since he was seconds from release of weapon, while I directed the others to go back in friendly territory. I did not check the formation and actually my nr.4 did not hear the communications, and he actually flew alone over the target area (nr.2 turned away just after weapon release). Good that our CAP killed the enemy, otherwise my nr.4 would have found himself alone against enemy fighters!
I cannot stress enough the importance of following the assigned timings and altitude deconfliction. On my RETROGRADE maneuver, I crossed the track of the Strike formation (f-18 and A-10) in the opposite directions, but all remained at the assigned altitude and therefore that sudden change in the plan did not create any problem. Since I don’t know exactly what happened in the other formations, I’ll talk anout mine (Colt2): during the long 25 minutes leg to the rejoin point, we did not maintain a good formation. Wrong! A good formation is not only fun to fly and nice to see on screenshot! It helps the leader in managing changes to the plan, overall look-out against enemyes and sel protection. I had, because of the catapult problem, my second section taking off before the first (still waiting behind the Tomcats). What it should have happened, once the second section was told the first was airborne, should have been a slow decrease in speed to allow the first section to rejoin and take the lead, without the need to waste fule in catching up. Then, because we had to insert many coordinates so we had out head in the cockpit for long time, we did not maintain adeguate Situation Awareness (SA) to the reciprocal position., Because of this, we had nr.4 lag in the formation without really understanding why he was not able to maintain a good speed (problem solved reaching the rejoin point). To sum up: maintain the formation is essential to increase SA and to protect all the aircrafts!
Re-entry. Good decision of some to land in Tabqa because of low fuel, and then refuel and get back to the carrier. For those who got back to CVN-73, there was some confusion since not all followed the normal procedures for landing on the carrier.
Once on the landing pattern, it is important not to delay the final turn. We were 3 a/c in the pattern, and I had to extend to 6 miles on final to take space for landing, in a situation when fuel state was starting to become a factor. Remember that one thing is flying alone (I am the first that doesn’t follow all the approach steps when flying training): remember the main sentence for Pilots: “Train as you fight, fight as you train”! If you always follow the checklist, always follow the procedures, once you have to gfly with other 40 aircrafts you will automatically do what all expect you to do, making life easier to everybody.
Sorry if I was long, but at the end, let me say it was a real pleasure to find so many of you out there Tuesday night!!
Nardax
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
18Ciao a tutti,
la missione è stata creata e pensata da me, che ho curato l’aspetto tecnico, e da Nardax, che ha seguito l’aspetto strategico.
Ricordo a tutti che questa era la sesta missione della “Campagna Dinamica SYRIA”:
- 1^ missione = “la battaglia di Taftanaz” (conquista dell’aeroporto di Taftanaz)
- 2^ missione = “Open the way” (attacco a postazioni di SAM10 sui rilievi)
- 3^ missione = “Bassel al Assad strike”
- 4^ missione = “Harbour attack” (strike su Tartus)
- 5^ missione = “Smoke on the water” (attacco al gruppo navale Kuztnetsov)
- 6^ missione = ”Dirty sands” (attacco a centri di produzione e stoccaggio armi chimiche)
Nardax ha già fatto un debriefing molto dettagliato sugli aspetti tattico-strategici della missione , io dico solo che la missione è parzialmente riuscita in quanto abbiamo raggiunto 2 su 3 target primari.
Dal punto di vista tecnico mi sembra che sia andato tutto abbastanza bene , considerando i 44 piloti + Awacs e spettatori … la missione era fluida , nonostante la pesantezza dello scenario Syria e la presenza di alcuni scripts (IADS-DISPATCHER AA-CTLD).
Io mi sono divertito molto e ringrazio tutti i partecipanti, ora tocca a Webber creare la prossima missione, anche se ho già in mente la 7^ ed ultima missione della campagna dinamica Syria , che si chiamerà: “In the wolf’s lair” (nella tana del lupo), indovinate dove vi porto?
A presto!
Hello everybody,
the mission was created and designed by me, who took care of the technical aspect, and by Nardax, who followed the strategic aspect.
I remind everyone that this was the sixth mission of the "SYRIA Dynamic Campaign":
- 1st mission = "the battle of Taftanaz" (conquest of Taftanaz airport)
- 2nd mission = "Open the way" (attack on SAM10 positions on the reliefs)
- 3rd mission = "Bassel al Assad strike"
- 4th mission = "Harbor attack" (strike on Tartus)
- 5th mission = "Smoke on the water" (attack on the Kuztnetsov naval group)
- 6th mission = "Dirty sands" (attack on chemical weapons production and storage centers)
Nardax has already made a very detailed debriefing , I only say that the mission is partially successful as we have reached 2 out of 3 primary targets.
From a technical point of view it seems to me that everything went quite well, considering the 44 pilots + Awacs and spectators ... the mission was fluid, despite the heaviness of the Syria scenario and the presence of some scripts (IADS-DISPATCHER AA-CTLD).
I had a lot of fun and I thank all the participants, now it's up to Webber to create the next mission, even if I already have in mind the 7th and final mission of the Syria dynamic campaign, which will be called: "In the wolf's lair" , guess where are we going?
See you soon!
la missione è stata creata e pensata da me, che ho curato l’aspetto tecnico, e da Nardax, che ha seguito l’aspetto strategico.
Ricordo a tutti che questa era la sesta missione della “Campagna Dinamica SYRIA”:
- 1^ missione = “la battaglia di Taftanaz” (conquista dell’aeroporto di Taftanaz)
- 2^ missione = “Open the way” (attacco a postazioni di SAM10 sui rilievi)
- 3^ missione = “Bassel al Assad strike”
- 4^ missione = “Harbour attack” (strike su Tartus)
- 5^ missione = “Smoke on the water” (attacco al gruppo navale Kuztnetsov)
- 6^ missione = ”Dirty sands” (attacco a centri di produzione e stoccaggio armi chimiche)
Nardax ha già fatto un debriefing molto dettagliato sugli aspetti tattico-strategici della missione , io dico solo che la missione è parzialmente riuscita in quanto abbiamo raggiunto 2 su 3 target primari.
Dal punto di vista tecnico mi sembra che sia andato tutto abbastanza bene , considerando i 44 piloti + Awacs e spettatori … la missione era fluida , nonostante la pesantezza dello scenario Syria e la presenza di alcuni scripts (IADS-DISPATCHER AA-CTLD).
Io mi sono divertito molto e ringrazio tutti i partecipanti, ora tocca a Webber creare la prossima missione, anche se ho già in mente la 7^ ed ultima missione della campagna dinamica Syria , che si chiamerà: “In the wolf’s lair” (nella tana del lupo), indovinate dove vi porto?
A presto!
Hello everybody,
the mission was created and designed by me, who took care of the technical aspect, and by Nardax, who followed the strategic aspect.
I remind everyone that this was the sixth mission of the "SYRIA Dynamic Campaign":
- 1st mission = "the battle of Taftanaz" (conquest of Taftanaz airport)
- 2nd mission = "Open the way" (attack on SAM10 positions on the reliefs)
- 3rd mission = "Bassel al Assad strike"
- 4th mission = "Harbor attack" (strike on Tartus)
- 5th mission = "Smoke on the water" (attack on the Kuztnetsov naval group)
- 6th mission = "Dirty sands" (attack on chemical weapons production and storage centers)
Nardax has already made a very detailed debriefing , I only say that the mission is partially successful as we have reached 2 out of 3 primary targets.
From a technical point of view it seems to me that everything went quite well, considering the 44 pilots + Awacs and spectators ... the mission was fluid, despite the heaviness of the Syria scenario and the presence of some scripts (IADS-DISPATCHER AA-CTLD).
I had a lot of fun and I thank all the participants, now it's up to Webber to create the next mission, even if I already have in mind the 7th and final mission of the Syria dynamic campaign, which will be called: "In the wolf's lair" , guess where are we going?
See you soon!
Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
19Hi everyone,
Chromium for AMVI here as leader of Uzi-1 flight, a 2-ship of Ka-50 tasked to do route security along the area of operation to prevent movers to reach both areas.
Task and mission were good in timings, complexity, and workload. Terrain also was ok. Our mission goes as expected since a couple of Mig-23s decided to join the party XD. I personally liked the FAA setup, the
Tech side the server did a great job: no lags, no fps issue, no strange behavior observed.
Trying to focus on what might be improved, I might suggest a thought: If you have more than a couple of helo flights in a mission with a fair amount of air coordination needed for fixed wings, also a C2 human role able to listen to both to AWACS and to ground frequency is mandatory. No helo is designed to work against fighters in open terrain (DCS fighters are even worse, cause they fire even behind trees or on ground parked). In case of a missing human C2, removing the "helicopters" from the CAP targets might be a solution but I agree that is the least realistic and immersive thing to do. If we were warned 10' earlier (yeah, that's the helos speed) we could go back to base and despawn to stay safe. Else, a very rough terrain might do the job when the new clouds system kick in;
Also having a human C2 might enable helicopter retasking or repositioning, making the mission easier to design and adaptable in case of issues to other flights.
Thank you a lot for inviting us and for sharing fun together.
Chromium for AMVI here as leader of Uzi-1 flight, a 2-ship of Ka-50 tasked to do route security along the area of operation to prevent movers to reach both areas.
Task and mission were good in timings, complexity, and workload. Terrain also was ok. Our mission goes as expected since a couple of Mig-23s decided to join the party XD. I personally liked the FAA setup, the
Tech side the server did a great job: no lags, no fps issue, no strange behavior observed.
Trying to focus on what might be improved, I might suggest a thought: If you have more than a couple of helo flights in a mission with a fair amount of air coordination needed for fixed wings, also a C2 human role able to listen to both to AWACS and to ground frequency is mandatory. No helo is designed to work against fighters in open terrain (DCS fighters are even worse, cause they fire even behind trees or on ground parked). In case of a missing human C2, removing the "helicopters" from the CAP targets might be a solution but I agree that is the least realistic and immersive thing to do. If we were warned 10' earlier (yeah, that's the helos speed) we could go back to base and despawn to stay safe. Else, a very rough terrain might do the job when the new clouds system kick in;
Also having a human C2 might enable helicopter retasking or repositioning, making the mission easier to design and adaptable in case of issues to other flights.
Thank you a lot for inviting us and for sharing fun together
.Re: 16-03-21 | Joint Operation | Op. Dirty Sands
20Ciao a tutti!
Ho volato come leader del RED Package durante la scorsa missione.
Come riportato in precedenza, avevo chiesto una modifica al piano di volo per poter eseguire le DEAD e la strike disabilitando prima la difesa SAM presente su WP3, in modo da evitare l'avvicinamento in BBQ e condurre le successive operazioni con migliore SA e vantaggio di quota. Purtroppo avevo dato per scontata la nostra intenzione di procedere con i task da alta quota, altrimenti saremmo stati allertati sulla presenza delle navi russe che hanno invece reso l'avvicinamento impossibile. Le navi erano anche segnalate nelle immagini di briefing, è stata una disattenzione che abbiamo pagata cara.
Siamo stati investiti da una raffica di SAM già a 50 nM dal primo target, in cui è stato completamente perso il volo COLT 3 e un componente di COLT 4. Dopo qualche minuto trascorso a capire cosa stava succedendo, abbiamo deciso di proseguire scendendo in BBQ, ma siamo stati raggiunti da un Mig-21 che era decollato in scramble praticamente a 5 nM da noi ed ha abbattuto un altro componente del volo. Un altro SA-9, in prossimità del WP 3 ha eliminato il terzo componente dopo il quale COLT 4-2 trovatosi da solo ha eseguito RTB.
Per fortuna FORD-2 è riuscito a sganciarsi abilmente dalle minacce SAM e proseguire il task fornendo supporto alle operazioni in coordinamento con Focus.
Considerazioni personali:
-L'errore più grande è stato proprio la cattiva interpretazione delle informazioni presenti sul briefing, che hanno compromesso drasticamente l'esito della missione per tutto il RED Package.
-Altro errore è stato quello di tentare di eliminare ugualmente la difesa su WP3 da BBQ, che avrebbe dovuto consentirci una migliore efficienza della CAP e un avvicinamento più sicuro sul target, ma la cosa giusta da fare a quel punto, col senno di poi, sarebbe stata puntare direttamente sulla zona target.
Rinnovo i complimenti al mission editor per la fluidità con cui è stata eseguita una missione così complessa, seppur impegnativa e piena di players!
Grazie a tutti della splendida serata e dell'opportunità di partecipazione, per le prossime contate pure su di noi!
P.S. Condivido pienamente l'idea di un supporto umano per il coordinamento delle operazioni di attacco al suolo; menzione d'onore per il Focus, ma fare tutto da solo era umanamente impossibile.
Ho volato come leader del RED Package durante la scorsa missione.
Come riportato in precedenza, avevo chiesto una modifica al piano di volo per poter eseguire le DEAD e la strike disabilitando prima la difesa SAM presente su WP3, in modo da evitare l'avvicinamento in BBQ e condurre le successive operazioni con migliore SA e vantaggio di quota. Purtroppo avevo dato per scontata la nostra intenzione di procedere con i task da alta quota, altrimenti saremmo stati allertati sulla presenza delle navi russe che hanno invece reso l'avvicinamento impossibile. Le navi erano anche segnalate nelle immagini di briefing, è stata una disattenzione che abbiamo pagata cara.
Siamo stati investiti da una raffica di SAM già a 50 nM dal primo target, in cui è stato completamente perso il volo COLT 3 e un componente di COLT 4. Dopo qualche minuto trascorso a capire cosa stava succedendo, abbiamo deciso di proseguire scendendo in BBQ, ma siamo stati raggiunti da un Mig-21 che era decollato in scramble praticamente a 5 nM da noi ed ha abbattuto un altro componente del volo. Un altro SA-9, in prossimità del WP 3 ha eliminato il terzo componente dopo il quale COLT 4-2 trovatosi da solo ha eseguito RTB.
Per fortuna FORD-2 è riuscito a sganciarsi abilmente dalle minacce SAM e proseguire il task fornendo supporto alle operazioni in coordinamento con Focus.
Considerazioni personali:
-L'errore più grande è stato proprio la cattiva interpretazione delle informazioni presenti sul briefing, che hanno compromesso drasticamente l'esito della missione per tutto il RED Package.
-Altro errore è stato quello di tentare di eliminare ugualmente la difesa su WP3 da BBQ, che avrebbe dovuto consentirci una migliore efficienza della CAP e un avvicinamento più sicuro sul target, ma la cosa giusta da fare a quel punto, col senno di poi, sarebbe stata puntare direttamente sulla zona target.
Rinnovo i complimenti al mission editor per la fluidità con cui è stata eseguita una missione così complessa, seppur impegnativa e piena di players!
Grazie a tutti della splendida serata e dell'opportunità di partecipazione, per le prossime contate pure su di noi!
P.S. Condivido pienamente l'idea di un supporto umano per il coordinamento delle operazioni di attacco al suolo; menzione d'onore per il Focus, ma fare tutto da solo era umanamente impossibile.